Catalunya Radio, January 2023.
In Catalonia alone, more than 1,100 different craft beers are brewed each year by around 100 producers. One of these is Judit Piñol, co-founder of Doskiwis Brewing, a small craft brewery in Baix Empordà. After dedicating many years to the fashion sector, she returned from Australia and decided to produce her own brand of beer. We learn about her story with Pep Nogué.
Today with Pep Noguer, craft beer. The craft beer boom, fortunately, has passed, because there really was a moment when new breweries were popping up like mushrooms. We’ve been talking about this for over a decade now, and it’s no longer something only hipsters do; it has become standardized, and we find a wide variety of quality craft beers on the market.
Just in Catalonia, mind you, more than 1,100 craft beers are produced by over 100 different producers, and one of these local producers is Judit Pinyol, who is the co-founder of Dos Kiwis Brewing.
Good morning, Judit.
I didn’t say that correctly, but correct me, please.
You said it perfectly. How are you, Judit?
Very well, very well. I have to say I get frostbites.
Frostbites, frostbites.
Frostbites. So I think it’s cold, huh? You come from Rupià, right?
I come from Rupià, I brought it with me, yes.
And you’ve brought here a fantastic sample of everything you work on.
Exactly.
Now you’ll explain it to us. You have a very funny and groundbreaking story, because all this craft beer business—you’re a young person, right? You went to Australia for something else and ended up coming back to make beer, or how did it go?
Yes, more or less. In 2010, I went to live in London, obviously an Anglo-Saxon country with a strong beer culture, and I had always loved beer, but I only knew one type. From these travels, I discovered that there were many more types, that beer is much more than what I—or we—were used to. And yes, it was specifically during a trip to Australia where I saw how a microbrewery worked and witnessed young people making beer and sharing it with their community. I loved it because it was a contrast with the typical idea I had of a factory, all assembly line, soulless. I loved it, so that’s what hooked me.
How many years did you spend abroad?
About 5–6 years, I’d say.
And now how long have you been back?
Officially, I’d say since 2016. I’m a bit fuzzy.
And when did you decide to start a company here called Dos Kiwis Brewing, and you have to tell me the story of that name.
Totally. Dos Kiwis doesn’t refer to the fruit but to the endemic bird of New Zealand, the kiwi.
Why that? Because I founded this company with my partner, Michael, who is from New Zealand. So the kiwi, besides being a bird that exists only in New Zealand, is also their national symbol. In fact, the name came from my mom one day; she said very amusingly, “two kiwis,” and we loved it. This was when we were brewing at home, around 2014, and my brother made the logo, and we already had the brand. So the kiwis, the kiwi bird, is kind of our mascot and comes from that New Zealand influence.
I have the feeling that in recent years, with the craft beer boom, there was a lot of intrusiveness. Many people tried it without the necessary knowledge. And in the end, now that the years have passed and the boom is over, the real players have remained… Maybe there’s been a bit of natural selection. Do you get that feeling?
Sure, I think one thing—many times when we talk about beer, I was thinking, wow, I’ve been saying for 15 years… When you say 15 years, now we could say 20, right? Back then, very few people made beers, and look at this: you said there are more than 1,000 beers, but just over a hundred small workshops. So what does that mean? The craft beer boom was real, but also, on the other hand, there are many people who have their beer made and brand it themselves. That’s what we call private label. And well… I always say, is that good or not? I think it’s good on one hand, but it has to be clear. I brewed beer in 2007, but I didn’t make it myself because I didn’t have a brewery. But I said it. The tricky thing is… you could say you’re a brewer and have your beer made.
And I think the beauty of craft beer… is that everyone puts their own stamp on it, their philosophy, personality, territory. Here, for example, Judit and Michael do a spectacular job.
And we have to say that Dos Kiwis, besides being a brewery, also has a taproom, which not many people have.
Wait, sorry, I’m lost. What’s a taproom?
A taproom is a brewery that has its own bar with its beers and some other local products. For example, here at Dos Kiwis—or as Judit’s mom calls it, very parent-like, “two kiwis”—you’ll find their craft beers, an amazing kombucha, and if you want, a cider from 10–12 km away. But you won’t find sodas, colas, or lemonade. You go there for their beer. And if you want to eat, you can have a snack, a good burger, or a grilled pork rib. Taprooms aren’t common either.
I know the one at Dos Kiwis, here in Rupià, nearby, in Sant Joan les Abadesses, there’s one from Jordi de la Minera, and near my work here in Barcelona, in the Pau neighborhood, there are the Almogàvers, who also have an amazing taproom. And this really promotes beer culture. And that thing we often talk about, zero kilometer and local proximity, that’s great because you can drink a beer made by the person who brewed it, fresh from the tap—that’s real beer culture.
What characteristics do the beers you bring today have, Judit? I suppose there are many different types, but they must have something in common, right?
Totally. Very quickly, continuing what Pep said, an essential part of our project has always been having the brewery and the taproom so anyone can come, have a beer, and see exactly where it was made. It’s very important for me to get feedback from people—what they like, what they don’t, and see their reactions. Right now, if anyone comes to the taproom, we have about 9 different beers. Today I brought… I think one of each. Yes, there are 9 here, I brought one of each because we don’t… Also, they’re in cans, half-liter cans.
44, yes. 44, practically. It’s a format great for sharing, 200 ml each. So tasting at home works too. There are various styles. Most of our beers are Ales. We also make a Pilsner, which is from the Lagers family, the one we’re most used to. We have a dark beer, a sour beer, and lots of IPA and Pale Ale, beers highlighting hop characteristics.
I’m getting a bit lost here. You’ll have to taste. I was going to say, this is so important… We think beer is very simple. Beer is essentially a brew… like if you made a vegetable broth at home, only instead of vegetables, you use malt, usually barley, although wheat beers exist, and other cereals that can be malted or not. The other ingredient is water, hops, as you said, and yeast. Yeast ferments, giving natural carbonation and alcoholic fermentation, which differentiates it from a barley infusion you could drink like tea. Judit, here we clearly see the difference.
Craft beer has natural carbonation and alcohol fermentation, unlike industrial or conventional beers, which have artificial carbonation, right?
Yes, although often, almost always, natural carbonation is supplemented with CO2 to get the ideal enjoyment point.
And now with so many people drinking non-alcoholic beer, is craft non-alcoholic beer a good combination or difficult?
It’s tricky because alcohol protects the beer from unwanted microorganisms. Without alcohol, other preservation methods are needed. We could pasteurize or find other ways, which we haven’t yet.
What makes a beer craft?
Oh, that’s a very, very difficult question.
Because in the end, I’m not sure if the term “craft” is just marketing.
No, absolutely not. When you look at any craft beer brand, the priority is quality of ingredients and quality of the result.
Does that mean commercial beers aren’t quality?
Not necessarily, but industrial beers sometimes make compromises for quantity and cost. Craft beers focus on quality ingredients, exploring styles, and behind each craft brewery is passionate people promoting beer culture. Each project is different, and that’s the beauty.
Another thing differentiating craft from industrial is flexibility. In your brewery, you could make a different beer every week. Seasonal beers, like a pumpkin beer in autumn, or a truffle beer in spring, using local aromatic plants. Craft beer reflects territory and allows many styles and variations.
And conventional breweries are catching up. Over the last 15–20 years, they’ve started buying small craft breweries or making other styles. Ten years ago, there was hardly any IPA from industrial breweries in Spain. Now there are.
More or less, craft beer hangover.
Depends on how much you drink.
Does it go down as well?
I haven’t tested, Roger. If you want to test for me… not now.
I always try to be as natural as possible, and craft beer is supernatural. You drink it to enjoy it, not to binge. So less hangover, though debatable.
And Nogué, there’s a lot of debate on serving temperature too, right?
Exactly, that’s culture. When older people talk, they remember only two types of beer in their youth: local and imported. Now with craft beer, Judit said they make 9 beers, 9 styles, different alcohol levels, hops, bitterness, so temperature matters.
Obviously, a frozen beer is for someone who doesn’t like beer and only drinks it in summer. For example, a dark beer we tasted last week, Judit, is 9% alcohol. That’s quite a trip. You can enjoy it at 10–12°C, right?
Exactly.
Listen here:
https://www.3cat.cat/3cat/com-fan-cervesa-artesana-a-doskiwis-brewing/audio/1160555/